D&R Website
Posted by Dave Lers on Saturday, 05-Jan-2008
:-@! (me cursing) My reply to a post on the Stuffing Your Own site was OT. I took irresponsible license with a comment about email (the snip) so that I could bitch about the D&R website. Since there are informative replies, I cannot justify deleting it, but it does seem more appropriate here in the forum.
Posted by Dave Lers on Thursday, 03-Jan-2008
Personally, I find it inexcusable that D&R cannot keep its website up to date (...and functional, e.g. the age verification glitch) [snip], its not good for business. Mark should have hired an internet/information professional a long time ago. I'd be very surprised if the ROI wasn't substantial, if not having one hasn't cost him a lot more.
Comments [ new ]
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Paul on Thursday, 03-Jan-2008
Ditto, Dave. Every time I make an order or read about a new tobacco here I check the web-site. Same old, same old. Even what I would call an old tobacco is seen on [link] their new tobaccos for 2005. So I would have to agree. It's the same website that folks here have had problems with for years.
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- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by dan b on Thursday, 03-Jan-2008
Much to my delight I had a long phone conversation with Mark today. One of the subjects of the conversation was the state of the website. He KNOWS it's a mess and has been for years, and while apologetic for it's current state, there are a number of reasons why it became a low priority (which I'm not going to detail here).
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I too believe that he's losing sales because of it's disorganization and was quite critical, but the thing we don't know and probably don't want to hear is that Mark is afraid that the days of online sales are numbered. There are several reasons for this, see this post for one of them
[link]
Also, believe it or not there are a few reasons to be thankful the website hasn't been updated. By all rights he should have raised his prices by now, as a Participating Manufacturer, his payments into the MSA have increased. So have his shipping costs, particularly to customers on the west coast and in Alaska.
His ladies in the office are super, and there's no reason not to just forget the website and call in your order. In addition to the new blends, (I think he said there's a total of 31 now) and new Vera Cruz Tube, he now carries just about any Tube you can imagine (Zen, and many others you won't find on the website), so just call in your order! (877) 989-9458 (Toll Free)
Plus, if you live in one of the nearby zones and call in your order, they will check the actual shipping costs, and charge that rate if it's lower than what's listed on the website, since he made a compromise when calculating the Average shipping costs back in '04 or '05.
Remember that D&R is primarily a Tobacco manufacturer, as such the majority of Marks energies have to be focused on making the best quality products he can, and it shows. The website is very low on the priority list, and now that I understand about half the things on his list, I agree that it's the way it Should be.
When you want to place an order, just call it in (877) 989-9458 (Toll Free)
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Friday, 04-Jan-2008
Mark has been doing his best to satisfy NAAG's, but he has been shut down before by them, and had to agree to not ship to seven states. Here's a snip from my last e-mail from Mark:
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"for legal and business reasons i have been slow to update the web-page despite my designing a new web-page several years ago. it is hard to spend 10s of thousands of dollars on a project when the government can close you down the next day. i am only human and can only accomplish so much. i have focused on blending the best products". As I said before, I am not at liberty to discuss what we discussed I feel in confidence. I know Mark is doing the best he can, so can we please get off the web page thing? He's knows it's screwed up, and sarcastic comments aren't going to help. last month Mark had written a 24 page response to the NAAG's justifying Internet sales! Enough! Capt Mike
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 04-Jan-2008
I had discussed this issue with D&R about a year and a half ago when my company had sent them a proposal. I'd kinda have to agree about his hesitancy to invest $20-$30k in something that may not be usable in the near future due to meddling by the controlfreaks and Nazis infesting American government at all levels today (and in both major political parties).
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I can easily envision the day we'll be compelled to drive to D&R to buy Mark's goods, since it isn't too far-fetched to think that government might attempt to ban interstate shipment of tobacco products if we, the people, don't start getting loud and kick these shysters up the arse....
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Dave Lers on Friday, 04-Jan-2008
Everyone seems to be talking about NAAG and the online store. I have to wonder how much time is spent on his phone lines because basic information isn't available online. I, like some of the above posts, made excuses for Mark as recently as '06 [link]. Since I first wrote "Some aspects of the site are pretty awkward (not user friendly)." [link] and talked with Mark about the site back in '03, the site has continued to go down hill and I'm no longer making excuses. Fairly recently, I went as far as offering a 'will work for tobacco' way to get the ball rolling. My basic proof of concept [link] could be stripped of all store related stuff in minutes (...or added later). Basic information and news would be a huge start... If $20-$30k is the going rate, I'm in the wrong business.
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- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Wazmo Nariz on Friday, 04-Jan-2008
It certainly would be for a basic news and info site; the $20-$30k range would be for a full-fledged e-commerce type solution using a transactional DBMS with other features like inventory control, reporting, etc.
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I'll certainly agree it would be nice to have some sort of basic updateable news or current events section to their current site, if nothing else.
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Paul on Saturday, 05-Jan-2008
I like the sample that you have there. Nice and simple and like Wazmo said easy to update. If I were Mark I would take you up on that will work for tobacco and tubes. I have no idea about how this stuff works but I do see the organization and the changes that you make here. Hey I like your other site with the Bellingham and other links. Quite interesting stuff and as always, well organized. Perhaps Mark has to see it in tan with brown font. Anyway I read more about D&R tobacco here than on his website. I'm surprised you're not getting tobacco now.
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- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Dano on Sunday, 06-Jan-2008
Well, that all sounds like a bunch of blather to me. The simple fact of the matter is that D & R's website can be updated quite easily and it won't take $10,000 to do it either. Jeesh give some middle schooler a digital camera and it's done in an hour.
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Further, whom ever he hired to put in that little age verify thing should be shot! First, it doesn't work correctly even now (all you have to do is enter a year and forget the rest) and what does he think? that kids can't figure out you have to put in an age over 18? or just bookmark the sites opening page?? Jeeesh.
As for Marks problems, I suggest his biggest problem is letting his customers know what he sells. As it is now, there's a large portion of his inventory missing from his website.
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Mike B on Sunday, 06-Jan-2008
Interesting angle on it, I guess.
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Accurate age verification is up to the website visitor, not the retailer. If anyone is deliberately bypassing any precautions the website owner has put up, the user is violating articles within the Electronic Signature Act, not the owner.
My opinion, as simple as it might be, regarding letting people know what he sells: If he relied heavily on internet sales for the business, I'm sure he would update it frequently. Not updating it tells me that his business flourishes more through other avenues of sales. JMHO.
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I'm not trying to argue with anyone about anything just putting a different perspective (maybe).
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Dano on Monday, 07-Jan-2008
The "Electronic Signatures In Global and National Commerce Act" is a tool that merely equates that an electronic signature holds the same weight as a written signature in a contract. It's essentially a consumer protection law.
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Nowhere in that act dose it imply that D&R 'must' put up that ridiculous age verification screen. In fact D&R is more than protected from State & Federal law with the warning at the top of it's main page that states 'Must Be Over 18'.
It seems to me that if he wasn't interested in Internet Sales he wouldn't have a web site at all! In fact I suggest he has a great deal of interest in selling online simply by looking at his main page where he now Advertises giving free machines away as well as free tobacco and tubes for a year to people that bring him new customers. Sounds like he's pretty interested in Online sales to me.
Ultimately, Mark's a great guy and a pretty damned good tobacco farmer but when the rubber meets the road he's dead last in knowing how to advertise his products. All he has to do is put up a pretty picture of all of his products, a price and a Toll Free Number to call! Any excuse as to why that hasn't happened is just BS! :)
- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Kent on Monday, 07-Jan-2008
Mark should subcontract Dave L. out for the web site creation (perhaps bartering with tobacco and tubes :-) - if Dave's willing. A while back Dave laid out a sample format for D&R, which looked good to me. Don't know if that link still exists.
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- Re: D&R Website
- Posted by Captain U-96 aka Mike on Thursday, 03-Jan-2008
I talked to Mark about this problem before Christmas, and was told he was going to update the website after the New Years Holidays. He knows he's taking a hit on business. There is more to this than meets the eye, but I am not at liberty to discuss it on an open forum. Mark has some new products he wants to include on his newly re--done website. When he is going to launch it I don't know.
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Capt Mike